tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5977625681756554695.post4281706710446842450..comments2024-03-26T13:46:42.738-05:00Comments on 4 Quarters, 10 Dimes: Training Historians and Biting My TongueDavidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03463621516644789183noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5977625681756554695.post-12503864474032251832013-12-06T16:06:58.160-06:002013-12-06T16:06:58.160-06:00Yeah, well, my high school history classes were no...Yeah, well, my high school history classes were not the reason I became a historian, let's just leave it at that. I didn't read The Federalist Papers until I decided to do so on my own in college. I've read them a couple of times since. They're fascinating, but tricky - you've got three highly educated 18th-century gentlemen writing for an audience of similar folks, and they did not cut each other any slack.<br /><br />The problem with handing the Federalist to students today is that Jay, Hamilton, and Madison were working within such a specific political context and you have to set that up or the whole thing is lost. Unless you understand classical republicanism, you will not understand what they are talking about - they use a lot of the same words we use today ("virtue," "faction," "liberty," "corruption," and so on) but they had very specific meanings back then that are largely lost today.<br /><br />Thus you end up with the all-too-common situation today where you have people who think they understand what the Founders were saying because they know what those words mean in 2013.<br /><br />Given the speed at which HIS101 moves, I find it easier to give my students the ideological background and then reinforce it with simpler documents.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03463621516644789183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5977625681756554695.post-59614381345233852762013-12-06T13:06:58.856-06:002013-12-06T13:06:58.856-06:00I dunno about you, but a reading of a few select F...I dunno about you, but a reading of a few select Federalist Papers was required in high school for me, and of course I went on to read the whole book. :)John the Scientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03467337009577733553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5977625681756554695.post-80019873372363684502013-12-04T17:19:32.228-06:002013-12-04T17:19:32.228-06:00Yeah, John, I don't think I could keep a job t...Yeah, John, I don't think I could keep a job teaching history in the South for very long - not after they see that in the syllabus the class on the immediate causes of the Civil War is clearly labeled "The Treason of the South." Not that this upsets me much, to be honest.<br /><br />I think it's a function of not being all that familiar with the debate or the consequences of the debate. I ask them to read a lot of documents, though none from the Federalist Papers (which are, properly interpreted, incredibly dense and difficult pieces for a HIS101 class). I spend a lot of time on ideology - how ideas filter through culture and affect actions - and this is a new approach to many of my students. It takes them a while to get the hang of it.<br /><br />Plus there are just way too many ignorant loudmouths spouting Nullification as if it were an actual idea these days, and this probably distracts them.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03463621516644789183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5977625681756554695.post-53045484421070426372013-12-04T10:23:24.052-06:002013-12-04T10:23:24.052-06:00Quebec is my favorite province precisely because o...Quebec is my favorite province precisely because one suspects that they are secretly armed and just waiting for the right moment.<br /><br />Plus, I speak enough French to make myself welcome.<br /><br />And seriously, you have students arguing for Calhoun? Did they not read the Federalist Papers at all? I mean, I don't share your views on the depth of treason of the South (I still see their point of view showing more loyalty to their state than to the US as legitimate within that timeframe, and given how short a time had elapsed between Colonial times and the Civil War, I understand that sentiment even if I don't agree), but there is no way a Federal government can function with that kind of nonsense. Is this a function of listening to too much talk radio?John the Scientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03467337009577733553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5977625681756554695.post-63048183420329378022013-12-03T09:55:13.701-06:002013-12-03T09:55:13.701-06:00Quebecouis: More French than the French.Quebecouis: More French than the French.TimBohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16128235274340905534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5977625681756554695.post-21312074836732730972013-12-03T06:46:12.088-06:002013-12-03T06:46:12.088-06:00Well, if the Nullifiers want to leave for more con...Well, if the Nullifiers want to leave for more congenial places, I say go. Of course, given that most of the people who are seriously making that argument today (as opposed to students completing assignments) are right-wing extremists, I doubt they'd find Canada all that welcoming. What's the old definition of a Canadian? "An unarmed American with healthcare."<br /><br />I always found it funny that you could put up commercial signs in English in Paris but not in Montreal.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03463621516644789183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5977625681756554695.post-88246460574414655112013-12-02T22:05:10.444-06:002013-12-02T22:05:10.444-06:00While the framers of the US constitution may have ...While the framers of the US constitution may have neglected to include nullification, the Canadian constitution of 1982 contains in Section 33 the "notwithstanding" clause. This allows the provinces to override the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Bill of Rights). Quebec used this to restrict freedom of speech, specifically to prohibit commercial signs in anything other than French.<br /><br />If your students moved to Canada they'd not only be colder, but they'd have access to more convincing arguments.TimBohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16128235274340905534noreply@blogger.com